Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Hewnam's avatar

That last paragraph reminds me of what Sapolsky wrote about the vmPFC in Behave. It also feels very applicable to postrat discourse. The excerpt:

"Briefly, the frontal cortex runs “as if” experiments of gut feelings —“How would I feel if this outcome occurred?”—and makes choices with the answer in mind. Damaging the vmPFC, thus removing limbic input to the PFC, eliminates gut feelings, making decisions harder. Moreover, eventual decisions are highly utilitarian. vmPFC patients are atypically willing to sacrifice one person, including a family member, to save five strangers.

They’re more interested in outcomes than in their underlying emotional motives, punishing someone who accidentally kills but not one who tried to kill but failed, because, after all, no one died in the second case. It’s Mr. Spock, running on only the dlPFC. Now for a crucial point. People who dichotomize between thought and emotion often prefer the former, viewing emotion as suspect. It gums up decision making by getting sentimental, sings too loudly, dresses flamboyantly, has unsettling amounts of armpit hair. In this view, get rid of the vmPFC, and we’d be more rational and function better. But that’s not the case, as emphasized eloquently by Damasio. People with vmPFC damage not only have trouble making decisions but also make bad ones.

They show poor judgment in choosing friends and partners and don’t shift behavior based on negative feedback. For example, consider a gambling task where reward rates for various strategies change without subjects knowing it, and subjects can shift their play strategy. Control subjects shift optimally, even if they can’t verbalize how reward rates have changed. Those with vmPFC damage don’t, even when they can verbalize. Without a vmPFC, you may know the meaning of negative feedback, but you don’t know the feeling of it in your gut and thus don’t shift behavior. As we saw, without the dlPFC, the metaphorical superego is gone, resulting in individuals who are now hyperaggressive, hypersexual ids. But without a vmPFC, behavior is inappropriate in a detached way. This is the person who, encountering someone after a long time, says, “Hello, I see you’ve put on some weight.” And when castigated later by their mortified spouse, they will say with calm puzzlement, “But it’s true.” The vmPFC is not the vestigial appendix of the frontal cortex, where emotion is something akin to appendicitis, inflaming a sensible brain. Instead it’s essential.

It wouldn’t be if we had evolved into Vulcans. But as long as the world is filled with humans, evolution would never have made us that way."

Expand full comment
MugaSofer's avatar

> The mind our brain spins up every morning is one that runs on language. What we think of as “ourselves” — the entity that thinks, plans, hopes, decides, remembers — is a construct of symbolic thoughts, and those thoughts are made out of words.

This isn't true. The frequency of this sort of "inner monologue" varies from person to person, with a decent chunk (~10% or so) being "never happens, what the hell are you talking about". It sounds like for you it's constant?

Personally for me it's maybe 70% of the time; it depends on my mood, but a lot of my thinking is wordless, and I can promise you that I'm still conscious and capable of understanding complex concepts when not internally narrating them in English.

Here's one study on the topic, just to confirm I'm not having you on. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053810013001426?via%3Dihub And here's an article by someone without one https://www.businessinsider.com/i-have-no-inner-monologue-2024-9.

Expand full comment
2 more comments...

No posts